From @debaoki (Editor of manga.about.com and one of the best AX twitter reporters I’ve found!):

okay at manga in US industry panel #ax09

lots of good commentary at manga in the US panel. lillian diaz-pryzbyl, luis reyes from tokyopop, plus robert napton fr. bandai

i can’t keep up with all the incredibly quotable quotes from the us manga panel at #ax09. very frank talk about failures, limitations.

there’s talk about how expensive it is to develop OEL manga – 4x as much as licensing manga from Japan.

Damn, that’s a huge investment difference — no wonder so few companies are willing to put forth the effort! Especially since they at least have an idea of how popular a licensed manga from Japan will do. With OEL, all the risk is on them — they have no idea how much it will sell, which leads into some cyclical failure as far as marketing goes. Seriously, how many OEL titles have you actually seen advertised? If TOKYOPOP pushed had pushed its OEL titles even half as much as they push Fruit Baskets, more of them might have had a chance. I also really get the idea that the talent search isn’t thorough enough — there are a slew of mediocre titles out there that pollute manga fans’ general opinion of OEL, which also contributes to this apparent downward spiral.

I really want to see more traditional US comics publishers to take on OEL projects. The companies that have previously been just licensing Japanese works may not have an incentive or the financial support to experiment with OEL, but at the very least, companies like Marvel and DC have money to play with. And I don’t mean any of the “manga versions” of their existing titles either — manga X-Men and manga Batman don’t count. I guess they still don’t have much of an incentive, but it’s unfortunate if they’re only looking for original projects in a certain style. If VIZ’s eventual original comics line will be willing to accept good pitches in any style, then why can’t Marvel and DC?

lots of talk about how the US system is not equipped to train artists to be better artists, storytellers.

US industry doesn’t allow artists time to develop their skills over time – demand for quick $$ return

at this panel, they’re showing examples of student work from a manga program at a local university. they’re all v. mediocre. #ax09

the very amateurish examples being shown on the screen don’t help anyone think that OEL manga has much to offer.

Exactly. No wonder no one wants to buy OEL! Consider that a vast majority of TOKYOPOP’s OEL titles were picked up form high school and college kids that entered their Rising Stars competition — most of them have never had any sort of formal training, so it’s really no surprise that they putter out so quickly. Their 20-page one shot might be okay, but give them a three-volume series and they have no idea what to do. I really get the feeling that TOKYOPOP was too eager to break into that market since no one else was tapping it at the time. Manga had only been popular for a few short years when Rising Stars was started, so there was only one generation of fan-turned-artists to draw from (admittedly, there were lots of manga fans from before the big boom, but the recent generation is the biggest crowd to take from). If they had started a few years later, there would have been many, many more art school-trained artists that would have been more capable of tackling the challenge of building up an OEL market in the States. Then again, many art-school trained artists still suck in the storytelling department because all they focus on is drawing, as noted below:

korean comics industry is smaller, but seems to allow for experimental comics to be more successful

“very few US manga artists have that fusion of drawing skills and knowledge of how a story flows”

webcomic artists forget that their pace of drawing 3 pages a week is too slow for professional work.

“it’s very difficult to be an awesome artist & an awesome writer at the same time.”

“We’ve met great artists who are miserable writers. There’s only so much an editor can do to fix an awful story.”

“so many 14 year olds on deviant art say “I’ve got a great idea for a manga”

“I say ‘give it 10 years & come back to me when you know how to write.’ – & that’s me being NICE.”

“ive been to many portfolio reviews where the artist says ‘this is not my best work’– so why show it?”

Lillian was frank that they think that they don’t pay artists enough, but the biz structure makes it hard to pay more

“we don’t care that you can draw naruto in 15 poses. Being able to draw a character in a story, that’s what we want”

Ouch. And yet there are so many artists I know that will openly admit that they can’t write worth a damn. But they still want to draw their own comics. There aren’t enough comic-oriented art programs in the United States — most liberal arts universities have a very general art program with most of the focus on traditional fine art. As such, they will have students work on technique and style, but not storytelling. It might be more useful for aspiring comickers to enroll in a film program instead, or at least take a few directional classes on camera and storytelling. It blows my mind that countries like France and Korea invest so much more into the arts and recognize so many more branches of art; no wonder both of their comic markets are ten times as prosperous as the one in the United States.

Interesting bit about the webcomic artists though — what is the professional pace of pages per week? I feel like this is something I should know, but the rate would be different depending on how many people are working together on the pages (penciler, inker, toner/colorist). This really is a ruthless industry, lots of work for very little reward other than your own satisfaction, but your own satisfaction doesn’t pay the bills.

general consensus is that OEL manga development is a low priority for publishers in hard economic times.

“the bookstore model works as consignment: you can sell 10,000 books to these stores, then they can return 9,000.”

“this really plays havok with a business to be stuck with 9,000 books that’s headed to the compactor.”

Bad news for all the recent and soon-to-be-graduates looking for jobs! (Oh snap, that includes me.) I think this is all the more reason to hope that the Longbox really takes off since it’ll make production and distribution much, much easier and cost-effective for publishers, which could theoretically translate into them being more willing to take chances with original projects.

–

Not really specifics from the AX panel, but here’s some good additional commentary from @CBCebulski (Talent scout for Marvel Comics):

The U.S. comic system is equipped to train artists. The problem with OEL is that a lot of them aren’t artists. They’re manga fans who draw.

Many OEL kids were thrown into, and taken advantage of, by a fledgling business they had no education in or understanding of.

Early OEL chewed up and spit out a lot of artists who did have talent and just needed guidance and support. I hope they stick with it.

I know many “OEL artists” who have stuck it out and have successful careers now, but there are plenty more who walked away disenchanted.

Hopefully they’ll go to art school, learn more about the comic form, & give it another go, w/ a company/editor who can guide them this time.

Reading manga is not a proper art education.

The last bit makes me laugh, though while I agree, I also think that reading a ton of manga/comics definitely helps. There was a girl in one of my classes last year that admitted to not reading a lot of comics at all. Everyone else in the class was all, “Then why the hell are you here?”

Opinion Prone: Hey, Eric! So how goes the quest for original comics at VIZ Media?

Eric Searleman:  We made the announcement at Comic-Con last summer about our intention to publish original comics. And since that time I’ve talked to hundreds of creators and perused a mountainous pile of submissions. The talent and enthusiasm is heartening.

OP: You were working on VIZ Media’s original comics with Marc Weidenbaum, who left the company in February. How much has this unexpected departure affected your work?

Eric:  His departure definitely had an affect on our plans. How could it not? But I’m happy to say that VIZ Media remains committed to publishing original comics. With Marc gone, the venture now falls within the orbit of VP Alvin Lu. I’m confident that along with Alvin, and Editorial Director Masumi Washington, I can get the job done. And I’m confident that our comics will be terrific.

OP: You mentioned at Editor’s Day that VIZ Media would be willing to consider any good story idea, regardless of the attached art style. That’s pretty awesome. All the same, do you think people with a less manga-influenced style would be less likely to pitch ideas to VIZ because of its brand?

Eric:  I’m hoping to publish a wide range of artistic styles. Comics are comics. Why put limits on it? I’d like to encourage anyone with a smart and fun idea to contact me. I don’t care if you draw like Masashi Kishimoto or Gabriel Ba.

OP: The graphic novel/tankobon format has pretty much been the exclusive format for manga-influenced original comics in the United States. Has VIZ Media considered publishing comics in single issues (that may be collected into trades later), as most American comics are traditionally?

Eric:  The format will suit the material. There’s no reason our original comics have to follow the same 5 x 7, b/w format as our manga graphic novels. And if one of our titles works best in serialized form, I’m sure we’ll figure out a way to serialize it.

OP: Has VIZ Media considered publishing original comics online via something like IKKI, which was announced in the wake of Shojo Beat‘s cancellation?

Eric:  Believe me, we’ve considered everything. There are so many options available to us. I don’t want to sound like a broken record, but I feel strongly that we’ll disseminate our comics in the best way possible that suits the material.

OP:  Over at TOKYOPOP, their submissions guidelines for original comics include a section for marketing. Do you think marketability will play a big role in determining what kinds of titles VIZ will pick up for its original comics?

Eric:  I’m not comfortable comparing VIZ Media with another company. But here’s the bottom line for us: the quality of the comic takes precedent over everything else. Period. If I get a submission that knocks my socks off, I’m going to sit down with Alvin and Masumi and I’m going to champion it. And believe me, I can be a very persuasive guy.

OP: Last summer, VIZ set up an office in Hollywood focused on turning its properties into movies. Do you think it will be viable to turn original comic properties into movies?

Eric:  Yes, most definitely. If we hit the jackpot with one of our original books, I’d be tickled to see it turned into a movie. And I’m sure the creator would be thrilled too. As an editor, however, my priority is on producing good comics. All that Hollywood stuff will come later.

OP: Original comics will, presumably, have smaller established fanbases than properties from Japan—how much of an influence do you think fan support has on the success of a movie adaptation of a comic?

Eric:  A solid fanbase proves that a comic book is connecting with its audience. That’s a fact. But adapting one medium into another is always a tricky business. How many times have we seen a great book turned into a lousy movie?  I wish there was a proven formula for success.

OP: Once you do manage to get VIZ Media’s original comics line off the ground, assuming VIZ Media will end up going with the graphic novel-only format, how many new series do you think you’ll be aiming to launch annually?

Eric:  At this point, that’s an impossible question to answer. But I can tell you this: I can’t wait until the day I see VIZ Media Original Comics on our production schedule.

OP: Even though VIZ Media isn’t accepting pitches for original projects just yet, you told several artists at Editor’s Day that VIZ Media was interested in hiring artists for specific roles, such as penciler, inker, and toner, for in-house projects. What kinds of projects are these?

Eric:  There are numerous ideas floating around the VIZ Media bullpen. Depending on what project gets the green light, we may need to hire a team of artists to get the job done. You never know. My goal in Savannah was to make contacts and see what type of talent level was available. After meeting the students and faculty at SCAD, I came back to San Francisco pumped up to make great comics.

OP: Can you share any examples of what those ideas might be, or is it all hush-hush?

Eric: I wouldn’t exactly say it’s “hush-hush.” I just think it would be inappropriate to reveal projects that are, at this time, still in development.

OP: I think that’s all I have to ask you! Is there anything else about Viz, original comics, life, the universe, or everything, that you’d like to add?

Eric: I’d like to thank everyone for their interest in our plans to publish original comics. Hopefully you’ll enjoy our original stuff as much as you enjoy the manga we bring over.

–

And that’s it! Thanks a ton to Eric for offering to do the interview in the first place and to Evelyn Dubocq, VIZ’s awesome PR director, for making it happen. I hope this interview has been informative to someone other than myself, and I wonder what, if anything, VIZ might be announcing at Comic-Con in a few weeks?

But Viz showed up after all, represented by Eric Searleman, the senior editor that was working with Marc Weidenbaum (the aforementioned VP) on the original publishing line. So it seems that the venture hasn’t quite died yet. It’s worth noting though, that while Viz’s website declares that they aren’t accepting unsolicited submissions, they don’t say that the original comics program is dead or on any kind of hiatus. It’s also worth noting that several days after the announcement that Weidenbaum had left Viz, there was a post on Viz’s official blog directed towards original creators, suggesting that they still had plans to accept submissions eventually, even if things might be significantly delayed with Weidenbaum’s departure.

The panel discussion covered some pretty general topics, mostly aimed towards artists and writers trying to break into the industry. Mr. Searleman was relatively quiet compared to the rest of the lot, but seemed much more optimistic on subjects like the economy and pitching projects to companies. Some worthy tidbits include his mentioning that any project pitched to Viz should expect to go through heavy editorial input and that women seemed to represent a majority of those attracted to manga. The entire panel was supposedly recorded and should be featured on Monday’s scheduled podcast at SEQALAB, if anyone’s interested.

What interested me the most about the entire panel though was, and the belatedly-introduced, actual topic of this post is, a question someone asked at the end of the panel, in conjunction with something else Mr. Searleman said earlier. Is Viz specifically looking for projects in the “manga style”? Like some, I would would prefer “manga” to be a word synonymous with “comics,” but the general population does not treat it as such, so it isn’t so. But both the person who asked the question and Mr. Searleman seemed to agree that it doesn’t really matter what style something is in as long as it can tell a good story, and Viz is out to “publish good stories.” Presumably, this translates to, “No, Viz is not only specifically looking for manga-styled pitches,” but I have to wonder if that’s a good or bad thing, marketing-wise.

I have always disagreed with those who have labeled American artists drawing in a perceived anime/manga style to be wannabes or rip-offs. The only weakness comes when artists take no interest in studying reality and base all of their stylistic choices off of pre-existing ones. But that isn’t an exclusively American (or otherwise non-Japanese) weakness. Young Japanese artists who surround themselves with manga undoubtedly go through the same steps — they mimic what’s around them. American artists who surround themselves with the same manga are really no different. Similarly, artists of whatever origin who surround themselves with Western comics will mimic the styles that they see and read and admire. If you label one set of them wannabes or rip-offs, you’ll have to label all of them wannabes and rip-offs, but without them, there would never be a new generation of artists.

Nevertheless, most non-Japanese fans of manga still end up drawing quite a bit differently from Japanese natives, probably because it’s impossible to ignore all of the other cultural influences around them, no matter how much they delve into the foreign media. So their styles don’t get be to called straight up “manga,” only “manga-styled” or “manga-influenced.” I have mixed feelings about that since I don’t consider “manga-styled” to be a very specific term. Astro Boy and Akira are both “manga-styled,” but you’d never mistake one for the other. I guess the most significant thing though, is that you’d never mistake either for a non-Japanese-related comic. Everyone expects something when they hear “manga” or “manga-styled” or “OEL.”

Or “Viz.”

Viz publishes manga. If Viz is to finally venture into original comics, everyone will expect that they end up publishing “manga-styled” original comics.

Mr. Searleman said so himself, but as previously stated, he also mentioned being interested in any good story. I wonder what would happen if Viz actually published an original comic that was vastly, vastly different from what people would expect from “manga”? What if Viz published something that looked really American indie? Or even American superhero? It’s easy to say that people will want to read anything that has a good story, but it’s hard to deny that for comics — art is a huge factor and always serves as the first impression. I would like to think that most people are drawn to manga for the stories more than the art, but it is always interesting to see just how big the divide sometimes is between manga fans and Western comic fans. If the stories are equally good, why the hate? Each side stereotypes the other. The stories on the other side aren’t better, they say. The former only see the repetitive and continuously retconned superheros and the latter only see the androgynous gay boys and lolicon. Or something.

Viz is a powerful brand within the community; would people be confused or put off to see a Jack Kirby or even Adam Hughes-esque cover on something with Viz’s label on the spine? Would they be shocked and appalled if Viz published a superhero story? A good superhero story, perhaps, but a superhero story all the same? Breaking down the barrier! Bridging and crossing the divide! Say it ain’t so! Then again, Dark Horse publishes a good amount of both already, and almost all Western comic book publishers at this point have tapped into the “manga-style” in some way. Those announcements all seem to be met with derision and scorn, but I don’t know a damn thing about the sales on say, the shounen Wolverine or freaky shoujo X-Men manga. Do these things actually work? Are people actually buying these titles because the art drew them to it? Or are all these companies’ various marketing departments retarded?

If these adaptations are actually selling, would the reverse work? Would seeing an Western-style comic published by a manga publisher attract fans from the other side? Or would such a venture attract the same kind of derision and scorn?

Or is it all a moot point because no one that draws in such a Western style would approach Viz in the first place? Students had to sign up beforehand to meet with their editor of choice on Friday. Reading over the list, every name that I recognized was someone that had a decidedly “manga” style, myself included. Professors seem to like to say that the top reason project pitches are rejected is because the style of the pitch does not match the style of the company it’s being pitched to. They tell us that Marvel would not look to hire someone with an indie style and that DC would not look to hire someone with a manga style. Those mantras may or may not be true (was all the X-Men manga pitched by an outside newbie?), but it might be enough to keep students away from companies that don’t traditionally publish things in their style. The barriers have been breaking down, but it might not really matter when you’re just breaking in.

Personally, I’ve never really considered “manga” to be much more than the Japanese term for comics. Because of the general public consensus that “manga” is narrowed to mean only comics of Japanese origin though, I usually won’t call comics of other origins by the term. But I’ll still use “comics” to refer to manga as no one seems to disagree that it carries a broader definition. No one says that “comic” can only refer to American or English-language sequential art. Yes, there are differences in Japanese and overseas comics, but in modern times, I don’t think that these differences are divisive enough to be rousing such heated debates. After all, within both Japan and the United States, styles vary greatly between artists and titles. Batman has been drawn a hundred different ways and has never looked anything like Jughead. Major Motoko Kusanagi, thankfully, looks nothing like Astro Boy.

Definitions are a funny thing, especially since they aren’t nearly as concrete as most people would like (including myself). In grade school, we read the book Frindle. I still own my copy of it at home, and I still think it addresses an interesting topic. After all, what is anyone to do when the population that uses the word doesn’t agree with itself about what it means? This seems to happen a lot within the anime/manga community because of the high number of originally Japanese terms that we’ve come to adopt (“otaku” and “yaoi” are two other controversial terms that immediately come to mind).

So OEL — Original English Language — manga, or global manga, for those that aren’t in English. Should we be calling them manga at all if it isn’t coming from Japan? Since I don’t believe that all Japanese comics fit under an overarching style, I don’t really believe in the argument that “manga” is simply an artistic style. Thus, no matter how manga-influenced a comic is, under the general consensus that manga = Japanese comics, OEL doesn’t need to have the term manga attached to it. But still, it doesn’t bother me that much because, like I said, to me personally, manga is less “Japanese comics” than it is “the Japanese word for comics.” And under the latter definition, “OEL manga” is fine.

Of course, then one might wonder, if it’s English language, why use a Japanese term at all? Well, it’s like Frindle, I suppose. Regardless of origins, “manga” has more or less been adopted into our language, and most people who like comics knows what it means. It’s like rendezvous and coup d’état and a billion other words in the “English” language. Manga has become accepted. Kind of. It brings us back to the first point of what its definition really is. Is it synonymous with “comic”? Or is it specifically “Japanese comics”?

Even if it does mean just Japanese comics, I don’t see the need to throw fits over it. I think a lot of manga-influenced artists (and promoters and marketers) were just looking for a new term to fit themselves under because “manga-influenced” makes them sound like wannabes and because they felt otherwise outcasted in the Western comic world where many people still consider manga to be “the enemy.” The manga-influenced would try to cater to the manga-readers because the Western comic-readers shun them. I’m tired of this divide. All artists draw influences from all over the place, and as I reject the idea that manga has a cohesive style, it doesn’t make sense to me that “manga-influenced” should be demeaning or limiting.

Yes, there are broad generalizations that people accept — Western-style is more angular and manga/Eastern-style is more rounded and fluid; panel layouts and angles are approached differently, and there are different sets of symbolism, but these things are so damn general that they shouldn’t even matter at all. As long as you can tell a story, who cares? Why does it matter whether you look up to Frank Miller or Kubo Tite? Manga-influenced artists shouldn’t be made to feel like they’re less original or less creative somehow because they prefer One Piece to Iron Man.

Besides, it isn’t like you could ever mistake an OEL title for a Japanese comic. So… in conclusion… I dunno. I don’t really think we need a term for OEL other than “comic,” but I’m not entirely against it either. If the term makes marketing and promotion more manageable and allows them to find the right audience, then it’s all worth it in the end, I guess. Most likely, I’m indifferent to the whole thing and just want people to stop arguing about it.

Our manga generation has broken a lot of new ground though. What would you call a comic by a Japanese-American artist? Would it depend on where it’s published first? Or better yet, what would you call a Japanese-American collaboration that’s released simultaneously in both countries like TOKYOPOP’s Princess Ai? These sorts of crossovers will only become more common as both manga and comics in general continue to expand their reach globally, so I think it would be easiest to just accept all our differences and bill everything as a comic, plain and simple. (Or even as “manga,” if there’s ever a consensus for manga to be 100% synonymous with “comic.”)